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	<title>Comments on: Reading Like a Writer: Maybe the Cold War happened because of their torturous books</title>
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	<link>http://whatwerereadingnow.org/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/</link>
	<description>Remembering the fun of reading</description>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://whatwerereadingnow.org/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-489</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bookswelike.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-489</guid>
		<description>P.S. I know that&#039;s a whole lot more than 10 books!  By my calculations, that&#039;s  24 books, but they&#039;re all worth reading for fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. I know that&#8217;s a whole lot more than 10 books!  By my calculations, that&#8217;s  24 books, but they&#8217;re all worth reading for fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://whatwerereadingnow.org/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-488</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 18:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bookswelike.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-488</guid>
		<description>I agree, those lists are ridiculous without any explanation or context or even an opinion.  We&#039;re just supposed to believe them (based on their own idea of their own authority) that these books are GREAT.  BLAH!
Of course I did the same thing.  But I actually have some authority!

My Top Ten Great Books (just they&#039;re enjoyable) would be:

The 13 ½ Lives of Captain Bluebear by Walter Moers

The Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud

The Harry Potter series by J.K. Rowling

The Dark is Rising series by Susan Cooper

American Gods and Good Omens by Neil Gaiman (he gets one slot otherwise he’d take all 10!)

Soon I Will Be Invincible by Austin Grossman

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead by Tom Stoppard (OK, it’s a play, but still)

Bunnicula by Deborah Howe  (Vampire bunnies, need I say more??)

Are You My Mother? by P.D. Eastman (the first book I ever “read”)

Galapagos by Kurt Vonnegut (see I read him too!)

Of course if asked, I could come up with a Top Ten list of any kind of book that you wanted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, those lists are ridiculous without any explanation or context or even an opinion.  We&#8217;re just supposed to believe them (based on their own idea of their own authority) that these books are GREAT.  BLAH!<br />
Of course I did the same thing.  But I actually have some authority!</p>
<p>My Top Ten Great Books (just they&#8217;re enjoyable) would be:</p>
<p>The 13 ½ Lives of Captain Bluebear by Walter Moers</p>
<p>The Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud</p>
<p>The Harry Potter series by J.K. Rowling</p>
<p>The Dark is Rising series by Susan Cooper</p>
<p>American Gods and Good Omens by Neil Gaiman (he gets one slot otherwise he’d take all 10!)</p>
<p>Soon I Will Be Invincible by Austin Grossman</p>
<p>Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead by Tom Stoppard (OK, it’s a play, but still)</p>
<p>Bunnicula by Deborah Howe  (Vampire bunnies, need I say more??)</p>
<p>Are You My Mother? by P.D. Eastman (the first book I ever “read”)</p>
<p>Galapagos by Kurt Vonnegut (see I read him too!)</p>
<p>Of course if asked, I could come up with a Top Ten list of any kind of book that you wanted.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://whatwerereadingnow.org/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-487</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bookswelike.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-487</guid>
		<description>HA! We work hard at &quot;What We&#039;re Reading Now.&quot;

Seriously, that&#039;s something that bugs me about the main &quot;Top 10&quot; web site -- it&#039;s a sea of out-of-context lists. I don&#039;t really learn anything from them. However, I think reading about people&#039;s favorite books and why gives you some insight into both the people and the books. 

Since I know you I didn&#039;t personally need any context, though. I just thought, &quot;Oh yeah, of course she put &#039;A River Runs Through It&#039; on there!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HA! We work hard at &#8220;What We&#8217;re Reading Now.&#8221;</p>
<p>Seriously, that&#8217;s something that bugs me about the main &#8220;Top 10&#8243; web site &#8212; it&#8217;s a sea of out-of-context lists. I don&#8217;t really learn anything from them. However, I think reading about people&#8217;s favorite books and why gives you some insight into both the people and the books. </p>
<p>Since I know you I didn&#8217;t personally need any context, though. I just thought, &#8220;Oh yeah, of course she put &#8216;A River Runs Through It&#8217; on there!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://whatwerereadingnow.org/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bookswelike.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-481</guid>
		<description>Well, shit, now I have to go back and explain why I like the ones I like. . .:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, shit, now I have to go back and explain why I like the ones I like. . .:)</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://whatwerereadingnow.org/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-473</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 20:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bookswelike.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-473</guid>
		<description>Also, I forgot to put up my own list! I&#039;ve never done one of these before. The criteria is that the books qualify as &quot;great books,&quot; right? It can&#039;t just be your favorite because it&#039;s fun? With that in mind, here we go, in the order of how I remember them (and poetry and plays specifically left off), with a little bit of context as well:


&lt;strong&gt;Jesse&#039;s Top Ten (and only one Greek author who sounds like he could be Russian among them)&lt;/strong&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;1. &lt;em&gt;Fahrenheit 451&lt;/em&gt; by Ray Bradbury&lt;/strong&gt;
    Books that remind you of how fragile our freedom is in the face of authority are so important. This one&#039;s my favorite because it shows how such authority would actually be expressed in the real world: making people &lt;em&gt;happy&lt;/em&gt; rather than miserable!

&lt;strong&gt;2. &lt;em&gt;From Hell&lt;/em&gt; by Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell&lt;/strong&gt;
    Not only is it a nail-biting page-turner but it&#039;s a chillingly honest reflection on this patriarchy that we&#039;ve created. 

&lt;strong&gt;3. &lt;em&gt;Immortality&lt;/em&gt; by Milan Kundera&lt;/strong&gt;
    This one&#039;s exhilarating -- page after page watching a woman who is trapped in the world she created for herself slowly setting herself free. And unlike most literary fiction that I can think of, it&#039;s not boring -- it&#039;s funny, beautifully written, suspenseful.

&lt;strong&gt;4. &lt;em&gt;Slaughterhouse Five&lt;/em&gt; by Kurt Vonnegut&lt;/strong&gt;
    A blatant call-out -- the military industrial complex has no clothes! It literally makes you laugh and cry, sometimes at the same time. We need more books that question our ridiculous society without being shrill. Whenever I read one of his books I say, &quot;Thanks, Kurt.&quot;

&lt;strong&gt;5. &lt;em&gt;Peter Pan and Wendy&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens&lt;/em&gt; by J.M. Barrie&lt;/strong&gt;
    I know the first one was originally a play but then it was a storybook. Anyway, these introductions to Peter are so funny, engaging, and surprisingly heart-wrenching that I go back to them often and I&#039;m amazed at how well they hold up. And Barrie was the first (and best!) user of the &quot;self-aware British tone&quot; that we all love today. J. K. Rowling would not exist without Barrie.

&lt;strong&gt;6. &lt;em&gt;Peter and the Starcatchers&lt;/em&gt; by Dave Barry and Ridley Pearson&lt;/strong&gt;
    These guys managed to write a modern prequel to Barrie&#039;s story while keeping all the important elements intact, and amping them up. The hard lessons Peter has to learn about loss and growing up are sincerely heart-tugging, and it&#039;s a can&#039;t-put-down adventure as well.

&lt;strong&gt;7. &lt;em&gt;Confederates In the Attic&lt;/em&gt; by Tony Horowitz&lt;/strong&gt;
    My only non-fiction pick. Horowitz manages to write a road trip memoir, investigative report, and searing analysis of post-Civil War America in one book, and he makes it funny, to boot. Amazing.

&lt;strong&gt;8. &lt;em&gt;Collected Short Stories of Roald Dahl&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;
    Hands-down the best short story writer in the English language. Each of them have O. Henry-like twists, all have real characters that spring from the most fertile imagination I&#039;ve ever encountered, and the villains always get their clever comeuppance. However, his least-plot heavy one, &quot;A Piece of Cake&quot; is also my favorite and it&#039;s still haunting years after I first read it.

&lt;strong&gt;9. &lt;em&gt;Treasure Island&lt;/em&gt; by Robert Louis Stevenson&lt;/strong&gt;
    No one tops Stevenson at action-adventure, and this one&#039;s the granddaddy of them all! From the first paragraph when you meet the mysterious stranger at the inn and his odd pirate-y ways, the action doesn&#039;t let up for a second. Also, we all want to be Jim Hawkins, always.

&lt;strong&gt;10. &lt;em&gt;The Last Temptation of Christ&lt;/em&gt; by Nikos Kazantzakis&lt;/strong&gt;
      It&#039;s too bad that this one is forever sullied by the film version. If my list was ordered by importance this would be at the top -- a devotional look at arguably the most influential historical figure. The story is exciting so it reads well despite (and maybe because of) the deep meditations on our physical longings vs. our spiritual journeys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I forgot to put up my own list! I&#8217;ve never done one of these before. The criteria is that the books qualify as &#8220;great books,&#8221; right? It can&#8217;t just be your favorite because it&#8217;s fun? With that in mind, here we go, in the order of how I remember them (and poetry and plays specifically left off), with a little bit of context as well:</p>
<p><strong>Jesse&#8217;s Top Ten (and only one Greek author who sounds like he could be Russian among them)</strong></p>
<p><strong>1. <em>Fahrenheit 451</em> by Ray Bradbury</strong><br />
    Books that remind you of how fragile our freedom is in the face of authority are so important. This one&#8217;s my favorite because it shows how such authority would actually be expressed in the real world: making people <em>happy</em> rather than miserable!</p>
<p><strong>2. <em>From Hell</em> by Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell</strong><br />
    Not only is it a nail-biting page-turner but it&#8217;s a chillingly honest reflection on this patriarchy that we&#8217;ve created. </p>
<p><strong>3. <em>Immortality</em> by Milan Kundera</strong><br />
    This one&#8217;s exhilarating &#8212; page after page watching a woman who is trapped in the world she created for herself slowly setting herself free. And unlike most literary fiction that I can think of, it&#8217;s not boring &#8212; it&#8217;s funny, beautifully written, suspenseful.</p>
<p><strong>4. <em>Slaughterhouse Five</em> by Kurt Vonnegut</strong><br />
    A blatant call-out &#8212; the military industrial complex has no clothes! It literally makes you laugh and cry, sometimes at the same time. We need more books that question our ridiculous society without being shrill. Whenever I read one of his books I say, &#8220;Thanks, Kurt.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>5. <em>Peter Pan and Wendy</em> and <em>Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens</em> by J.M. Barrie</strong><br />
    I know the first one was originally a play but then it was a storybook. Anyway, these introductions to Peter are so funny, engaging, and surprisingly heart-wrenching that I go back to them often and I&#8217;m amazed at how well they hold up. And Barrie was the first (and best!) user of the &#8220;self-aware British tone&#8221; that we all love today. J. K. Rowling would not exist without Barrie.</p>
<p><strong>6. <em>Peter and the Starcatchers</em> by Dave Barry and Ridley Pearson</strong><br />
    These guys managed to write a modern prequel to Barrie&#8217;s story while keeping all the important elements intact, and amping them up. The hard lessons Peter has to learn about loss and growing up are sincerely heart-tugging, and it&#8217;s a can&#8217;t-put-down adventure as well.</p>
<p><strong>7. <em>Confederates In the Attic</em> by Tony Horowitz</strong><br />
    My only non-fiction pick. Horowitz manages to write a road trip memoir, investigative report, and searing analysis of post-Civil War America in one book, and he makes it funny, to boot. Amazing.</p>
<p><strong>8. <em>Collected Short Stories of Roald Dahl</em></strong><br />
    Hands-down the best short story writer in the English language. Each of them have O. Henry-like twists, all have real characters that spring from the most fertile imagination I&#8217;ve ever encountered, and the villains always get their clever comeuppance. However, his least-plot heavy one, &#8220;A Piece of Cake&#8221; is also my favorite and it&#8217;s still haunting years after I first read it.</p>
<p><strong>9. <em>Treasure Island</em> by Robert Louis Stevenson</strong><br />
    No one tops Stevenson at action-adventure, and this one&#8217;s the granddaddy of them all! From the first paragraph when you meet the mysterious stranger at the inn and his odd pirate-y ways, the action doesn&#8217;t let up for a second. Also, we all want to be Jim Hawkins, always.</p>
<p><strong>10. <em>The Last Temptation of Christ</em> by Nikos Kazantzakis</strong><br />
      It&#8217;s too bad that this one is forever sullied by the film version. If my list was ordered by importance this would be at the top &#8212; a devotional look at arguably the most influential historical figure. The story is exciting so it reads well despite (and maybe because of) the deep meditations on our physical longings vs. our spiritual journeys.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://whatwerereadingnow.org/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-384</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2007 12:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bookswelike.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-384</guid>
		<description>So apparently I have to read Lolita since it was on the top ten of the Top Ten (and moreover if you think it&#039;s good, it&#039;s worth reading, then it must be).

I guess you&#039;re right, I was being too lenient. A bad story cannot be saved by even the very best language, but you can read the pretty bits (as Ms. Prose shows us in her book - she explains the stories for you while showing you the best parts) and acknowledge they are good (and essentially learn some writing tricks from them).  You just wouldn&#039;t want to read the whole book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So apparently I have to read Lolita since it was on the top ten of the Top Ten (and moreover if you think it&#8217;s good, it&#8217;s worth reading, then it must be).</p>
<p>I guess you&#8217;re right, I was being too lenient. A bad story cannot be saved by even the very best language, but you can read the pretty bits (as Ms. Prose shows us in her book &#8211; she explains the stories for you while showing you the best parts) and acknowledge they are good (and essentially learn some writing tricks from them).  You just wouldn&#8217;t want to read the whole book.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://whatwerereadingnow.org/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-378</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 23:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bookswelike.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/reading-like-a-writer-maybe-the-cold-war-happened-because-of-their-torturous-books/#comment-378</guid>
		<description>YES! Nice one. Not only do I agree with you but I&#039;m glad you threw that punch at literary pretension. It&#039;s bad for two really huge reasons:

1. When we become overwhelmed by books that sacrifice story for some high-minded, nice-sounding prose you wind up alienating the general public from the reading experience. They want engaging, fun, relatable stories and if they can&#039;t get them in books they&#039;ll get them somewhere else.

2. When this stuff sells, or gets critical acclaim, writers just keep cranking out more awful stuff.

The one thing I&#039;ll disagree with is that I don&#039;t think a book without a story can be saved by pretty sentences. Every good piece of writing has something happen in it -- some kind of change in a character, somewhere along the way -- otherwise we just can&#039;t be engaged. We can&#039;t appreciate words for their aesthetic value alone. 

I love poetry, which is arguably where one should look first in the quest for beautiful, well-used language. But the best poets are all telling some kind of story in their work. If Allen Ginsberg writes beautiful words about a sunflower that&#039;s fine, but &quot;Sunflower Sutra&quot; is so lasting because of the context, the story -- his journey and the moment passing the sunflower that made him stop and ponder. 

And speaking of Russian writers, Vladimir Nabokov wrote perhaps the most beautiful-sounding celebration of the English language ever in &lt;em&gt;Lolita&lt;/em&gt; but that book wouldn&#039;t still be read today if we weren&#039;t so completely enthralled by Lolita and Humbert Humbert.

This all reminds me of B.R. Myers&#039;s notorious essay against literary pretension in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200107/myers&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Atlantic Monthly&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt; a few years ago. People were PISSED! But he was right. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YES! Nice one. Not only do I agree with you but I&#8217;m glad you threw that punch at literary pretension. It&#8217;s bad for two really huge reasons:</p>
<p>1. When we become overwhelmed by books that sacrifice story for some high-minded, nice-sounding prose you wind up alienating the general public from the reading experience. They want engaging, fun, relatable stories and if they can&#8217;t get them in books they&#8217;ll get them somewhere else.</p>
<p>2. When this stuff sells, or gets critical acclaim, writers just keep cranking out more awful stuff.</p>
<p>The one thing I&#8217;ll disagree with is that I don&#8217;t think a book without a story can be saved by pretty sentences. Every good piece of writing has something happen in it &#8212; some kind of change in a character, somewhere along the way &#8212; otherwise we just can&#8217;t be engaged. We can&#8217;t appreciate words for their aesthetic value alone. </p>
<p>I love poetry, which is arguably where one should look first in the quest for beautiful, well-used language. But the best poets are all telling some kind of story in their work. If Allen Ginsberg writes beautiful words about a sunflower that&#8217;s fine, but &#8220;Sunflower Sutra&#8221; is so lasting because of the context, the story &#8212; his journey and the moment passing the sunflower that made him stop and ponder. </p>
<p>And speaking of Russian writers, Vladimir Nabokov wrote perhaps the most beautiful-sounding celebration of the English language ever in <em>Lolita</em> but that book wouldn&#8217;t still be read today if we weren&#8217;t so completely enthralled by Lolita and Humbert Humbert.</p>
<p>This all reminds me of B.R. Myers&#8217;s notorious essay against literary pretension in <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200107/myers" rel="nofollow"><em>Atlantic Monthly</em></a> a few years ago. People were PISSED! But he was right. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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